Get ready to be F.I.R.E.D U.P! Because today, we have Meghan Harrison. Meghan is the founder of Meghan Harrison Consulting. Meghan is a coach for those who want to turn their expertise into a highly profitable online course. She shares her journey with us and she will give us tips on the right courses to take. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the show!
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Krista Mashore:
I just sent a message to Jesse. He works with me at EXP, and he is awesome. I asked him if he needed any help and said you would be a great resource. Just an FYI.
Speaker 2:
Hey. I know how you feel about Zack, but I just wanted to let you know in Hubstaff, he's super productive. And he had the most badges last week for productivity as far as… Let's see his badges that he got. They are… I have to actually look to see which ones he received. Most badges, Zach, he got six. It doesn't let me see which badges he got, but I know he got efficiency, productivity, and time hero. So I'll look at the other three. Maybe we should make him employee of the week. I know we're going to be letting him go and all that, but at least his productivity is really good in Hubstaff. You know what I mean? I don't know. Up to you.
Krista Mashore:
And make sure you say therefore those exact reasons.
(silence)
Hi everyone. Are you ready to be fired up? Because I sure am. We've got Megan Harrison. She's an online course expert. She's worked with people like Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi, and if you don't know who they are, you absolutely should because they're amazing just like her. So sit back and let's get ready to be fired up.
Hi, Megan. Thanks so much for being here. Super happy to have you.
Megan Harrison:
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me.
Krista Mashore:
So Megan's house is so cute. In her background, she's got all of the really cute colors and she knows all about décor, that's for sure. So if you are in real estate, we all know how much we love that. And even if you're not, you know how much we love décor as well. So talk to us, so you are very successful young woman, and you've done some amazing things. I'd kind of like to talk a little bit about your journey, where you started out, where you came from, and where you are now.
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. Thanks. So in my other life, I say I was in the hospital administration for about five years. Something completely different. So I was pre-med in college, and I decided I didn't want to become a doctor. I liked the idea of becoming a doctor more than actually becoming a doctor. So I switched it to more of the business route, and it was great. I had so much. I learned so much through working for a huge company, like HCA, that's really translated really well into the entrepreneur world. But after about five years, it just got a little bit mundane. So it was actually after going to Tony Robbins Unleash the Power Within that I decided to make the leap to start my own business. So that's why it's kind of surreal for me to be now have him as a client. Super exciting.
But I learned how to start a business through online courses. So just Googling how to start a business, like legit. That's how naïve I was. Through the power of retargeting and Facebook marketing and advertising, I came across people like Marie Forleo and Amy Porterfield and Pat Flynn, and I really learned the fundamentals of starting a business through these programs. And so I knew how much of an impact it made on my life, and I also now see the impact that it can make on the entrepreneur's life from financial freedom and just the ability to make an impact and leave a legacy.
So I'm extremely passionate about the opportunity that exists now through productizing your expertise and being able to reach so many more people than we ever would've been able to without this modality.
Krista Mashore:
So how long have you been doing this?
Megan Harrison:
About seven years now.
Krista Mashore:
About seven. Oh, that's a long time. So you've definitely were an early adopter of online courses because they've been around for a long time. But really I would say over the past three, four years they've become more popular, and they're getting more and more popular as you know just every minute of the day. It's like now everyone's doing it, has an online something, right?
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. Especially with the circumstances. It was like people had to go from overnight… It might've been on their list of things to do, and now it became I need to do as in yesterday type of [crosstalk 00:06:51]-
Krista Mashore:
Yes.
Megan Harrison:
But yeah, let me correct that. I started my business about seven years ago, and I think four years where it was solely online course design and development. So solely niched further and further, and then stuck with that.
Krista Mashore:
The online visit. So you mentioned that you're working with Tony Robbins. So you were at Unleash the Power Within, and I'm sure your mind is going, “Wouldn't it be awesome to work with him one day?” Seems like this big dream, and now you are there. So kind of talk to us about the journey. How did that happen? That just seems so surreal.
Megan Harrison:
It really is. If you do believe in the power of manifestation or just visualization, I've told people since the day I left UPW or I guess when I started my business, which is only six months after UBW, that Tony and I were going to work together one day. He just didn't know it yet. And that I'm going to create products and courses and programs. So it was. They actually reached out to me, his team, and Dean's team. So I couldn't even tell you. I didn't even do anything special. It wasn't like, “Oh, okay.” They came across me through other clients that I've worked with. I guess there's not that many people that do what I do, at least on the level, more specialized in premium flagship programs.
So aesthetics, as you mentioned earlier, has always been important to me. So when clients are not usually creating their first course, but they're ready to take their course, they're already seen in ROI and/or they have the budget and the business foundation to invest right away, then that's when they would come to a company like mine versus not really starting out, just first time course creators. So that's where Dean and Tony fits so well.
Krista Mashore:
So you basically take someone that already has a course and that's doing well, doing great, and enhancing it, make the user experience better, making aesthetically the way it looks better, all of that.
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. There isn't a right answer for the best platform to use or the best way to create your course. It depends on where you are in your business. And so if you're just creating your first product, you haven't really validated it, there's no reason in investing $10,000-$50,000 on a professionally designed course. Rather get a minimum viable product out there. Just like anything in business, you want speed of implementation is extremely important. But then there's the balance of you want to also creating a program that actually gets your customers results.
Krista Mashore:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Megan Harrison:
But then once you have validated it, once you have the revenue coming in and you do see that this is something that's not just going to go into the digital library or something. Something that's actually going to be a revenue generating asset for you, then why not invest in actually making it represent the quality of your brand? So look the part, enhance the user experience so you can also increase the customer lifetime value and repeat purchases from the customer. So there's so much more that you can dive in on the strategy side of things, which I love, so that's really where we specialize in.
Krista Mashore:
Gotcha. So let's talk a little bit. There's a lot of people, especially now with everything that's happened with COVID, and people are really coming to certain areas in their life where they're at an impasse. They've been wanting to do something for so long. Many people are at an impasse because they have to be. Maybe they're losing their job or they're jobs are just financially not making any money anymore. Or they're coming to an impasse because they realize, “Man, this is it.” I don't mean like this is it like we're dying, but this is a huge, major life change that has happened. And I think what I've found is that many people start to make life changes during life changes. So now they can and they realize that there's just so much more that can happen or not happen, good or bad in life. So why not just take a chance?
So can you dive a little bit into courses and taking somebody's expertise and making it into a course where they really, really can help people, and kind of dive into that a little bit more because some people I think, they want to do something different. They just don't know where to start, and you were going to school to be a doctor, on that path. And now you're creating courses. That's such a huge difference.
Megan Harrison:
It's such a huge shift.
Krista Mashore:
Yes.
Megan Harrison:
Yes. I guess I'll start with what I see the true value in courses versus another modality, whether it be a live workshop or a traditional education, going to a college class or reading a book because this is all ways to transfer information. A course to me is more of an implementation program. So you're going into it with the purpose of getting your customers to get results, and the only way that they're going to get results is if they actually take action on what it is that you're teaching them.
So when I work with clients, I love to just really stay focused on what are the actions that they need to take in order to get to the end result. And if you start with that mindset, it's just a slight shift. Rather than asking, “Well, what information do they need to know, or what do I need to teach them,” that leads the way usually to becoming an overinflated encyclopedia, which is not the purpose. It's not to just give information. It's to get them to their desired result with as least headache and stress as they possibly can and in the quickest amount of time.
Krista Mashore:
Yes. I love it. It's more of an implementation process. That is great because truth be told, all the information that people need is on Google. You can Google pretty much anything, figure out how to do anything. But the implementation part of it and the actual taking the action steps and sticking to it is the problem that most people have is the stick to it-ness. And it's like, “What do I do next? How do I this?” It's hard for people.
Megan Harrison:
Right. I mean, that's what people are looking for the most because information is… We are absolutely inundated with it, and you can Google anything and everything that you could ever dream of or imagine online. But then it's also that the mass overwhelm that also becomes the value proposition for courses. So instead of looking at it as, “Oh, there's so much information out there for free,” that's actually where the overwhelm sets in, and yes, there's a lot of information but you have to sift through the BS. You have to sift through who's just talking just to talk, who actually knows what they're doing, and that has the results to prove it. And then that's where I think the personal brand and that trust and authority comes in to play. So you do have to have that side of your business too that you're building is to build the credibility and the authority side of it so people do trust that you are the right person to learn from.
Krista Mashore:
So then let's dive into that because there are so many people out there. What's that saying? If you can't do, the teach. I used to be a teacher, and I used to be a realtor and now I teach digital marketing. I hear all the time, “Well, if you were such a good real estate agent, why are you now teaching other real estate agents, and why are you teaching other digital marketers and business people? Why aren't you doing it?” I'm like, “Well, I actually was really good at it, and that's why I am teaching because I kind of got to that level.” But many people teach courses because they themselves couldn't do. So how does somebody know who to trust when it comes to purchasing a course? What would you recommend because you deal with a lot of people that are mostly successful I would assume.
Megan Harrison:
Right. I mean, I would say just look for people that have actually achieved the results that you want to achieve. It is sometimes hard to sift through, again, the BS of more people fronting than actually… But there are credibility factors. So I always say my biggest value proposition or the way that I differentiate myself from other people that have online courses is that I have an entire agency that we do this every single day, like day in and day out. So the processes and then the designs and the templates and everything that we're offering through my online courses are things that we've used on a daily basis. So especially with technology when it changes so rapidly, unless you're actually in the midst of it, it's hard to keep up with all those changes.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah.
Megan Harrison:
That would be the biggest thing is look for the results. Validate it multiple times, and I also think that you can just sense someone's genuineness, if that's even a word, through watching their content and interacting with them online, joining their free Facebook group, signing up for their email list, things like that.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah, you can get to… It's funny, there's different types of buyers. There's ones that just buy right away, and there's some that watch you for a year, depending on… So watch who it is that you are going to want to work with. Make sure you know what they're doing.
So what would be the first place someone would start? I know you don't specialize in this. Forgive me for asking, but I'm sure you've kind of looked at all realms of course building because you're mostly going after somebody who has a course, that's successful and wants to take it to the next level and make sure that they perfect it. But what would you say for somebody that is newer to starting courses or they really want to venture out? They're good at something. And let me kind of help with this too.
You don't know inside of you the things that you're great at that seems so easy to you, that just comes so naturally, but it's like you have this gift that some people would take that gift as like you were handing them a crown or something. But we take so many things that we're good at for granted. So where would you tell someone to start?
Megan Harrison:
That's exactly right. And I would say we underestimate our strengths because they come so naturally to us. That's the definition of a strength is that it's a natural skillset that we have. Maybe we've made it better through training and just practice over the years, but actually I do… So the agency side of it is more for people that already have a course. But then I also have the whole online course and training for more of the DIY market where that would fit in very well with your question that you're asking.
So the first step is essentially first you want to validate the idea. You want to make sure that this is something that there's actually a market for. The best way of doing that is to search for other courses and programs and classes on that topic, and if there are other courses and programs, that's validating that there is at least a market. So don't think of competition as a bad thing, as a negative thing. It's actually a validation. It's a good thing. If there's nothing on it, it's probably unlikely that you're the first person in the history of the world to come up with this idea. And maybe it's because there's not really that many people that want to pay for it.
After that, then it would be to really begin to synthesize the information and putting into a structure, so your course outline. And again, coming back to that action oriented mindset, start with knowing where your customers are. So what is the problem with the pain point they're trying to solve. That's the only reason someone's ever going to give you money is if they feel like you have enough value. They value the information or the end result more than they value the money.
And then second step is to figure out where they want to be, and from that, those two points, you can create that journey. So from a very action oriented mindset, what are those milestones that someone needs to take in order to get from A to Z? And then you can ask the question, okay, what's the information they need to know in order to take that action? And that course outline's going to be foundation of your entire program.
Krista Mashore:
Yes.
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. So starting to create content without that done is just a recipe for disaster. I always say it's like taking a bunch of money, throwing it in a pile, and lighting a match, and throwing it on the pile of cash, and just watching it blow up in flames because you're going to end up spending so much time creating content that's not going to be used or you're like, “Ah, this fits better here.” It's just a waste.
Krista Mashore:
Yes. So basically you're bringing them through their customer journey from the beginning process all the way to the end and piecing that in to the right format and organizing it correctly so they actually can implement it, be successful.
Megan Harrison:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Krista Mashore:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Got it. Okay, great. Great. That's good advice. So what about aesthetically as far as certain to-dos or not to-dos when course creating? Like for example, when I first started creating my courses, it was like three years ago. I thought, “Longer is better.” So I made these hour and a half long trainings, and then it was like, “Oh, I think people want six or nine minute trainings.” So I had to redo everything.
So are there any to-dos, not to-dos regarding that kind of a thing?
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. I would say try to keep it more bite size pieces. So to your point, typically the hour and a half videos, you want someone to be able to consume it like bite sized snacks. So they could sit down, 15 minutes, take that lesson, and then go about their day, come back, take the next lesson, and be able to pick up very easily where they left off. So knowing where they are in the progression of the course. So if you have an hour and a half video, what you can do is you can basically just edit it to be multiple videos.
So there's not like a right or wrong answer, but if I was to give you a just rule of thumb, typically you'd have six modules within a course. And then maybe four to eight lessons within each of those modules. So like a book would have sections within the book, and then they have chapters within each section. Your sections are like the modules, and then the chapters are like the lessons within each of the modules.
Krista Mashore:
Gotcha. Okay, great. And then you mentioned earlier how you help people create courses and content where there's not a bunch of fluff, but it's actually like action and they're going right to it. So somebody should be able to with a six to eight module course, with four to eight lessons in each module be able to take themselves from point A to point B for that specific task that they're trying to learn or that thing they're trying to become.
Megan Harrison:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Krista Mashore:
Great. And what kind of courses have you seen created? I want to get people's minds to start thinking about…
Megan Harrison:
Oh wow. Yeah.
Krista Mashore:
I'd love to hear some just [crosstalk 00:20:33]-
Megan Harrison:
I always laugh when someone's like, “Oh, do you have a specific industry?” I'm like, “No. Not a specific industry at all.” Everything from high frequency stock trading to crystal energy healing to for mom's that are having their first baby to make their house green, getting all the toxins out of it to Ryan Levesque ASK Method Masterclass, bodybuilding, Ben Pakulski. Singing, a singing coach and everything in between. I'm trying to think of the maybe the strangest. Creating a tanning business, so spray tanning. So many.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah.
Megan Harrison:
I've had a few in real estate. I've had a lot in entrepreneurship and marketing and business. Yeah, the list goes on and on and on.
Krista Mashore:
On and on and on. Yeah, so you talked about like, man, having a baby and making your house green. That is never even knew that was a thing.
Megan Harrison:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah, it was actually a huge thing. So from just the statistics, everything's going no one wants the toxins, everything organic, non-GMO, getting rid of the… Going into all natural makeup and your hair and all the beauty products that you use. So she actually has multiple mini-courses on there as well from beauty to the kitchen and to household products, and then I forget what the other one was. Something around that nature.
Krista Mashore:
Gotcha. And is there a sweet spot for price? So do the best courses that sell the most are around X price?
Megan Harrison:
Yeah, it's such a hard question to ask because it's really dependent on where it fits in your product suite. So there's sometimes you can have courses, and I have these as well, that are more of that entry level product. And then they move into a higher level program. So my example would be I have the perfect lesson slide deck training and template, which is $27. Then it moves into the Course Master or Course Makeover, three-day workshop, and then that's around $297. I don't know why everything ends with a seven. And then the flagship program, Online Courses Academy is $2000. And then you can go up from there the higher level masterminds.
But a lot of clients do fall in that funnel because it works really well. It's not that people don't have the money or that they don't need the product. A lot of the times it's just they don't have the trust yet to invest in that higher level program. So giving those entry level programs is a great way to get them to know, like, and trust you more. And I think that's why it works so well. It depends on the industry.
Typically, and this isn't always. There's always cases that fall out of this. But typically health and fitness are going to be less than a course on business that you can prove the ROI very easily.
Krista Mashore:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Megan Harrison:
Based on you're going to generate the money back. But then there's other ways to get people to understand the value that comes through the course, even though it might not be a monetary thing. But I have a client that's healing through divorce. How much would you pay to have your kids go through the divorce process in a way that doesn't traumatize them for life? That's priceless.
Krista Mashore:
Absolutely.
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. So it's really looking at what is that need that the customer wants and then understanding there's so much value. Maybe it might not be like you can put a hard dollar amount on it and then price becomes a little bit more subjective.
Krista Mashore:
It's so funny. I always thought they needed a course on that. I've been divorced. It's been so many years, but I remember this is hard. If someone would teach you how to do it gracefully so your kids can be okay, that would've been amazing. And so many people get divorced, and I think a lot of people actually would want that.
So the idea here is that what are you good at. Many times you find something that you're good at by something negative that you've been through. A great example is a divorce. You go through a divorce, and you notice a really bad problem that you went through or you noticed that you were able to get through something that maybe was bad in a good way. There's so many different things that you can create courses on that your expertise define. It doesn't have to just be business something. It could be organization or… I'm sure Megan can do a much better than I can as far as what different ideas, like she just kind of talked about. But there's so many ways that you can do things right now. I think many people, they're afraid.
So when you wanted to venture out, Megan, how did you take that leap of faith? That's a scary thing to do. Leave the doctoral profession, being a doctor, on that path to creating courses. What a huge risk, and what a great risk that you took but it's a huge risk. And many people are afraid of doing that. What advice would you give around that?
Megan Harrison:
Yeah, it is. I remember when my mom was like, “How are you going to get health insurance,” when I told her that I was going… That was the number one concern. I'm like, “I don't know, mom. I'll figure it out.”
I think in the beginning when people say you don't have to hustle, that's a lie. I mean, there's a stage in your life, the beginning of the entrepreneurial journey where you do have to hustle. And so I worked. I maybe got four hours of sleep maximum for six months. I would go to my full time job, come home, actually go to the gym, and then I would work on my business from eight until two o'clock in the morning and then get up at six. And I did that for six months, and I got a few clients. Enough where I felt like I wasn't going to be homeless. I wasn't sure, but I thought there's a good chance I'm not going to be homeless. And at that point, then I just took the leap of faith. I guess worse comes to worse, you can always have a backup plan. I guess I could move home with my parents if I needed to. Luckily I had that foundation. That would be the last freaking resort, but…
Krista Mashore:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Megan Harrison:
My ego would definitely be hit if that was the case. Luckily it didn't come to that. And then there was a few years of hustling. I worked a lot.
Krista Mashore:
And how long did it take you before you started seeing some success?
Megan Harrison:
I was very fortunate. I started my first year in the green. So I was profitable, but I probably wasn't making as much as I was in corporate. It was about two years. And then things continued to go on the uphill from there.
Krista Mashore:
Good. Okay. So I always end in, and first of all, I want to make sure that you're able to tell people where they can find more about your courses and all that great stuff. But in the meantime, I always ask everyone… I end the podcast with one question, and that is if you had to give one piece of advice, no matter if it was business or personal or whatever, any type of information on, what would that one piece of advice be to people?
Megan Harrison:
Oh, I think it would be to learn to trust your intuition, especially for women. But men have it too. But I think even women more so. We have this gift that we sometimes tend to try to shut out, and anytime that I really felt that draw or I felt that calling to do something and I went for it with full faith, and things tend to work out. On the flip side when I didn't listen to that intuitive nudge or whatever it may be, it usually proved me right in a negative way later on. So that's something where in the woo-ish side, but I found it to be extremely valuable.
Krista Mashore:
That's awesome advice. I think it's true. I think we're smarter than we give ourselves credit for sometimes. That little nudge that we get or don't get we should listen to it more often.
Okay. Now how, Megan, can people find out more about you if they're interested in maybe creating their own first course or learning more about what you do, how can they find out where you are or what product would you like to offer?
Megan Harrison:
Yeah. So my website is Megan K Harrison. All my social media is the same @MeganKHarrison. On my website, you can find a bunch of free offers. Online Course Alchemy will let you go through this three module course that'll really help you get your course up and running. So I think that would be a great first start.
Krista Mashore:
Great. Thank you, and so congratulations to your success. Working with people like Dean Graziosi and Tony Robbins, that is such an awesome, such a great accomplishment. Good for you. And I love that you said that you pretty much weld it into your life based upon visualization. Like you said, it was going to happen and here you are, and it's happened.
Megan Harrison:
Yup.
Krista Mashore:
Okay, everyone. So I hope you enjoyed this episode just as much as I did, and thank you so much for your time. I know that it's more valuable than anything in the whole world is your time. So thanks for spending it with me and Megan. And I appreciate you. And don't forget, it's great to sit back and listen and learn. But we don't want to be chronic learners. We want to be implementers. So make sure that you implement, and have a super awesome day.
Thank you. You did great.
Megan Harrison:
Thank you so much. It was a pleasure.
