Get ready to be F.I.R.E.D U.P! Because today we have John Khosravi, one of the best immigration lawyers in the legal field.
He is the president of Lawyer's Toolbox and the host of Immigration Lawyer's Podcast.
We will discuss how consistency is the key when it comes to marketing in any type of business and what is the currency of the future.
Krista Mashore:
Hi, everyone. I'm super excited to have you. As you know, we are F.I.R.E.D Up today. We've got an immigration and social media expert, John Khosravi, who actually trains and helps other attorneys utilizing digital marketing and how to become immigration lawyers. So John, welcome, super happy to have you.
John Khosravi:
Thank you, Krista. Thank you so much. It's such an honor to be on your show.
Krista Mashore:
Awesome. So as you know, I teach digital marketing to local professionals. Obviously, attorneys are local professionals and you teach the same thing. I think that many times, people feel that marketing and having a professional based business are completely separate when quite frankly, I believe they're one and the same.
John Khosravi:
Exactly.
Krista Mashore:
You seem to have the exact same philosophy. So, tell us a little bit about what you do and how you can help our listeners today.
John Khosravi:
Well, you just said the main part of it. So many professionals want to take those apart. They're embarrassed or ashamed, or think it's something foreign to go with marketing and that kind of stuff. But, you don't have a business unless you're doing marketing. It started the same with me. I was a lawyer within other firm. I wasn't making much money, but I was just doing the work. Now, I realize I want to grow and expand. So I left that firm, started my own law firm. Months go by, no one's calling me. I just thought of I tell people I have my own firm, come work with me. Nothing was happening. Luckily, my wife's a lawyer as well. She was working at a job and making enough money to pay for the bills. And then, she got laid off. Her company had massively offs as a German company with a subsidiary here.
John Khosravi:
All of a sudden, I was like, “Neither of us are making income, I needed to learn how to do something quick.” That's when I got all these books about digital marketing and how to do online stuff with this for free too because I didn't have the money to do ads, for example, or anything like that. It's like planting a seed and watering it over the month. It grew and grew for fruit and it just keeps growing. Like this morning, I got a call from a guy from a video I did six years ago. He watched it, liked it and wanted to work with me. So, it's like buying real estate when it's cheap, just putting some stuff out there, waiting years. You don't have to wait years, but it just happens as long as you put yourself out there.
John Khosravi:
That's why it's so important for professionals not to shy away. The cool thing is with the different fields we're in, it doesn't really matter. Digital marketing is the same for every field. It's really just showing people your knowledge, your experience, your accountability, your responsibility through audio and visual formats. People pick it up and they love it. It's wonderful.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah, it's so true. I always talk about the effects of your input versus output. Right? So, putting input is doing things like creating video, creating content, giving valuable information to people and helping people, and getting it out there on the web, getting it on YouTube so you get search engine optimization, getting it on your website so you get SEO. Organically, that starts to grow over time. So, we don't even realize the effects of the input that we put in now that just starts to expand and expand over time. So the more input that you put on a consistent daily basis, the more output that you get later. So many times, people will stop doing the input because they don't see it instantly. They don't understand that something that they do today, they might not see the results of it for another year. But if you keep doing these little activities every single day, eventually the momentum that picks up is just astounding.
John Khosravi:
Yeah. Warren Buffett talks about exponential growth of his investments by reinvesting every year, all that mathematical stuff. The same with this marketing stuff, you just do a little bit every day. Now, I've gotten to a point where I try to put at least half an hour to a couple of hours of content out in a day. But, it takes a while to get that point to develop that kind of system. But, it's not too difficult, especially with outsourcing to develop that kind of content. But if you put in a five-minute video once a week, that'll pay off. It's that easy. Still, it's that easy. It's coming in a crowded marketplace, so there's differentiation that has to happen and more sophisticated stuff over time. But, it's still a wide open field because most people are too embarrassed. Really, it's a psychological phenomenon of hearing themselves and seeing themselves. It's so difficult for them to do that.
John Khosravi:
I have a podcast and I have so many great people I want to interview. But they just tell me, they're like, “I'm really shy. I'm embarrassed to come and see myself on the video. I just can't do it.” These are people that could be really successful if they just got over themselves in that way. And so, a lot of it is a psychological burden that people have to overcome to be able to do it.
Krista Mashore:
I always tell everyone, “That's how you look and that's how you sound.” So, it's easy to say that you're embarrassed. But when you meet somebody, you can't say, “Well, I don't like the way I look. I don't like the way I sound. So, I just can't meet you. I'm going to put a bag over my face.” No, you don't do that. Right? It's the same thing with video content. Okay. So, talk to us a little bit about if somebody was to come to you and say, “John, what is your number one marketing secret?” what would it be?
John Khosravi:
It would be audio format in some way, just putting yourself out there an audio. The guy who called me this morning, it was from a video six years ago. At the time, I didn't have a video and I didn't know video editing. I was embarrassed with my face anyways. So, what I do is have audio that would put over a PowerPoint and put that on YouTube. What I've found is those actually gave me the best kind of clients as opposed to the ones who are watching a video. If you will watch video, have a lower attention span that that people would watch a PowerPoint and listen to it. Those people are much more dedicated, I've found. Maybe I'm going to go back and do those PowerPoints with voiceovers. It seems like it gets people that are more engaged in the material rather than me being animated, moving my hands on here.
John Khosravi:
But, that's it. Just put yourself out there all the mediums, definitely have your voice in there. That warmth connects with people. And so, when they call you over the phone to try to schedule a consultation or schedule a meeting, or schedule whatever, they know that voice. It's a warm voice. Like for me, I was thinking about this the other day, I have a podcast that has, at this point, over 100 hours, 200 hours of material. I have regular listeners. Those people have listened to me, as the person they've never met before, more than they probably listened to most of their family members, the people in their lives. They're hearing my voice constantly. So, I have a special place in their minds and hearts, like actors used to be in the '80s and '90s when they were big actors, the famous one, where people felt like they know them. People talk about Madonna like this, their friend, because they know the name or whoever famous now. We're getting old. I don't watch as much popular media nowadays. But, people would think of these people as someone close to them.
John Khosravi:
Nowadays, as a podcaster and as a video personality, you replace that in people's lives and they know you. There's people I watch on YouTube, which I learned a lot from, a lot of these marketing and business gurus I watch. I feel like I know them like a family member because they put themselves out there. That's a such a powerful thing and that's really the future. Currency, having money is power. But, being able to get people to listen to you and trust you is the currency of the future in this digital age that we're going in. So, it's really important that you get the real estate right now and develop it because you're going to have hiccups. It's better you have these mishaps now rather than later when everyone's doing it cleanly. While everyone's still bumbling around, do it when it's not as embarrassing and get your piece of the pie. It's the gold rush. Go to California. Get that piece of land that you don't mind before everyone else does. That's really the urgency of everything that we're doing right now.
Krista Mashore:
I totally agree. Well, you have heard of the parasocial relationship. So basically, the parasocial relationship is our brains have been programmed to see somebody that we see on the other side of a TV screen or the voice as somebody of authority. So basically, research shows that because when we were younger and we'd see people on the other side of the television, right, that our brains have been programmed to see them as somebody of importance to put them on a pedestal. So, we start to develop a one-sided relationship. Meaning, just like you just said, you feel like you know these people. You want to fight for them and you want to cry for them, just like when you watch TV and you have these characters. That's how strong this parasocial relationship is between the professional and the community when they're consistently producing content and correctly distributing it so it's actually seen.
Krista Mashore:
Your community is developing a one-sided relationship with you. They're getting to know you. They're getting to like you. They're getting to trust you. They're seeing you as the authority figure. So, he's right. It's the gold rush right now. Now is the time to get over ourselves and not to be so concerned about what we think, but be concerned about making an impact. One thing that I learned was that, one of my coaches actually helped me and he said, “Krista, it's not about you, make it about them.” Right? Make it about them in how you're helping and serving. That will help you get over your fear of video because no one likes doing it. Right? We're all nervous until we get used to it. But, it's just like anything else, we can learn.
John Khosravi:
Yeah. There's so many talking points and so many important that you just mentioned. The way it's marketing, you have to do less sales because a lot of people are uncomfortable with the hardcore salespeople and closing and stuff. But if people already know you through the marketing, when they come, they're just ready to sign on the dotted line. It's really if you want that to work with them. That's the great part is I pick and choose the people I work with. That really increases my quality of living, quality of lifestyle because I'm not working with people I don't want to work with.
Krista Mashore:
Well, also, you're attracting, just like you said. So, you are attracting the type of person that already likes you and wants to work with you. So, it's like you're repelling the ones that don't and you don't want to work with them anyways because they're going to be difficult. But, you're attracting the ones that already know your lifestyle and know your personality and know what you're about.
John Khosravi:
What you just said, right, and that's why I know you're successful in this and that you've developed a lifestyle. You have such a good smile. That's what I could tell, that you're happy. The people who don't want to work with you already know. You don't have to sit with them and talk half an hour, and then realize you're not a good match. You had hired and you're working with, then you realize that the person is a jerk and I don't want to deal with them. It weeds them out because it's such a big market and millions of people have access to you. So, the ones that do like you come and the ones that don't go away. It's that easy. It really fixes itself that way.
Krista Mashore:
Don't you feel too, John, when people come to your office, like you said, they've already made their decision? So, they might be interviewing multiple attorneys. But when they come to you, they are coming to you because they've already made the choice. And so, they are high fiving you and hugging you, and acting like that they know you and they've never even met you before.
John Khosravi:
Yeah. The reality is most people don't have the patience to call around and even do meetings with multiple people because it takes too much time. They're lazy. I'd hate to be negative about it, but I'm the same way a lot of times. I just hire the first person I find. And so, if you're the first video they see or the first person they connect with, they just don't even bother going through a second or third one. So, you really captured that cleanly because of human behavior. You just got to be there, have your face there, a smile there, and let people know who you are. That gets them.
Krista Mashore:
You're like me, you specialize in Facebook, correct?
John Khosravi:
A lot of it, I'm testing around a lot. Facebook is not as much any more. For immigration clients, the kind of clients who would find me on Facebook are not my ideal one. What I've found is YouTube video is the best, but I use it interchangeably. And so, I go on every social media. One thing I'm getting more and more on top of it is each social media is so niche. So, we can't do the same stuff on each one. So, I noticed my Instagram was not working as well because I was publishing too much YouTube type content on Instagram. That was causing my follower account to go down, so I have to adjust that. LinkedIn was something I'm really pushing. LinkedIn requires me to have more thoughtful articles written, for example, where I touch base, I'd do connect with people, and they like or comment. And then once they comment, I go into their background and I see their resume. If they look like someone interesting, who's doing something with their lives, I'd schedule a call with them just to get to know them.
John Khosravi:
That networking aspect, I could do it from home, has been very powerful as opposed to these meeting groups I used to go to every morning. I would sit in a room with a bunch of people and they would never remember who I am. And so, that was good for LinkedIn. But then, because I was doing so much video, I'll paste in just the videos on LinkedIn, trying to just do one thing multiple times. The videos work, but they don't connect as well as writing these personal statements or articles and stuff on LinkedIn. Each one has its own thing. I like doing all of them because they're just so fascinating the demographic that they touch upon.
Krista Mashore:
Gotcha, gotcha. Makes sense. So, you're basically doing video repurposing but trying to tweak the content a little bit based upon the platform. For example, on YouTube, people are going there to compare and contrast. They're going there to learn, right? Whereas, in Facebook, people are going there to get entertained. And so, you're breaking that. You're interrupting that pattern, but you're still being seen top of mind obviously. I can tell you I definitely know what you're talking about because we're speaking the same language, which is cool.
John Khosravi:
Those that you've said, like coaching, is so important. I put this off because you always think of what does this person know. It's going to be a waste of money. But really, when the money that you've made is so large, none of it is waste of money. You're not going to spend $200,000 on coaching. If you're on a really high end, you might go to as many courses and seminars. Once I got over that hump of thinking like, “Is this a scam? This person got to cheat me,” if you have a five-hour video that you watched, that you paid for, if one minute of it makes a difference of your company getting two or three more clients, that makes up the money and more. So, one thing I've been really going hard for last year and this year is getting as many courses as possible, sitting down, watching them, getting coaches. This is such a vital thing to do.
John Khosravi:
What I was doing this whole time is I was sitting and studying all that stuff myself, spending hours and hours. I'm like, “Well, I just get the cliff note by someone telling me what it is, who has experience in this area. That saves me a lot of time and a lot of headache from mistakes. His books, I learned from their mistakes. So, that's been a second thing. The coaching you mentioned is so important and it's something that'd take to the next level of overcoming that barrier that exists in my trust really of the coach.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah. Well, and also too, it's like certain people will join something and they're expecting to get screwed over. If you're expecting to get screwed over and you're expecting it not to work, it never will. You have to come with it with an open mind. What I always tell people is find someone that you like and trust, that you can tell that not only has done what they're trying to teach you. Meaning, don't go to somebody who's doing it because they themselves couldn't do it so they teach. Right? That's the wrong kind of coach. Go to someone who's actually done it and they've been proven to help other people do it because you will absolutely fast track yourself. I hear so many people saying, “Once I have the money, I'll hire the coach.” It's completely the reverse. You need to invest in yourself. Right?
Krista Mashore:
Robert Kiyosaki says, Rich Dad Poor Dad says that there's two types of people, people that buy investments and people that buy liabilities. Buying an investment, even if it means you need to put it on a credit card for is an investment, like investing in your college, investing in your own knowledge, investing in your education. Right? That's an investment. A liability is purchasing something that you really can't afford. That is a vacation or lavish clothing or something like that. But, anytime you're investing your knowledge and education to further yourself, it's actually a smart investment. So, you can do just what you said and learn on the fast track from the mistakes that they've made, and learn what helps get you there quicker and learn a quick way to do it. I completely agree. I absolutely have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on coaching just in the past couple of years.
John Khosravi:
People right now, they invest in stock market, 401(k)s, with the idea of we'll make 2% or 5% or 10% this year. But if you take that money and invest in your self-education, you can make a thousand percent return on things. It's really, reinvesting yourself is so much more important. Beyonce, the singer, had this one line that years ago I heard. She said, “If I'm going to bet on something, I'm going to bet on myself.” I'm like, “Wow, that's so true.” If I go and buy some stock in X corporation on the Dow Jones or NASDAQ or something, there's some company with some CEOs who don't care about me and they're probably stealing money or something like that. But, I'm giving my money with the hope that it's going to go up 5% or 10%, and I'll retire. That's not going to happen. I'll invest in myself. Even if I don't do something right and I fail, I'll learn from the mistakes.
John Khosravi:
If I succeed, then I succeeded. It's always a win-win as long as you pay attention and you learn from your mistakes and you grow. That growth is worth a fortune as opposed to just investing in someone else or buying some properties that you're not really studying and know well. You got to be really careful investing in real estate. That's what a lot of people want to do, buy a house or something like that. But as you said, Robert Kiyosaki, finding the house you live in is not a good investment. That's just the standard of living kind of thing. But, that's the key. Invest in yourself in whatever we can. Watch good YouTube videos, read the books and then take the next level, get coaches. But whatever you do, constantly reinvest in yourself. That's the name of the game.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah, I agree. I know you've done a lot of that as well. So, tell us a little bit, I know you've got a podcast as well. What's the name of your podcast?
John Khosravi:
I'm starting my second podcast and I'll start a third one later too. The main one, it's called The Immigration Lawyers Podcast, and lawyers is a plural. What happened was when I started my own firm, I said… I do this one investment immigration process called the EB-5 program where this is when multi-millionaire, billionaire foreign people start businesses in the United States and create jobs in the US. If they do that, they could eventually get a green card. Jobs are created and all that. I was thinking, well, this new guy that no one knows has no presence. How could I have trust to show that I'm not going to get this money disappear with this high net worth who are coming. I said, “Okay, I'll do a podcast that's there every week, every month.” Over time, they'll say, “Well, this guy is not going anywhere. He's not going to take my money and run away because, look, he's here every month doing a podcast. He's going to be back.”
John Khosravi:
And so, I started that, even at first, actually looking for clients. But, it morphed into training other lawyers and updating them on the laws because they change frequently, and then eventually talked about marketing. Now, I've created a community of immigration lawyers, right? I do training. I do education. And then, when I started my own course on how to do this stuff, the people that are listeners, regular listeners, started signing up for it because they knew my program. I give a lot of information for free. I'm not here to lie. But when you talk for hundreds of hours, it's really hard to be a liar and not have your self come out. Eventually, it seeps out. So, people who know me know me and that became a secondary revenue source from people on training. Now, that is overcoming the main practice. So, I'm doing more business-to-business stuff more and more every day, as well as business-consumer kind of stuff.
John Khosravi:
I still have the business-consumer kind of stuff because I need it. Like you said earlier, I need people to know I know what I'm doing and it's a test case. So when I do new marketing kind of stuff, I test it with my own clients in my own business. If I know it works, then I tell the people I'm teaching how it is. I don't just guess it or watch someone's book, or watch a podcast and repeat what they say. I really had to test it out first and then let people know how it went.
Krista Mashore:
Great, great. Okay. Awesome. So, where did you learn your training from?
John Khosravi:
It's mostly self-taught. The law, I worked for people and then I read constantly. The marketing stuff, I watch a lot of stuff on YouTube, a lot of books, obviously DotCom Secrets. I watched your video of Russell Brunson. I was surprised. How did you get Russell Brunson on? The DotCom Secrets is right here. Traffic Secrets are over there. It's always being read.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah. I actually was in his inner circle, so I just got my four 2 Comma Club Award.
John Khosravi:
Wonderful.
Krista Mashore:
I actually got it six months ago, but it finally just came in last week. So, he was my mentor. So, Russell is the one that helped me to grow from zero to 7.4 million in 25 months by using ClickFunnels. What he teaches, basically creating awesome funnels, but then making sure you could market it properly on Facebook. That's what I specialize in, teaching local professionals how to do that.
John Khosravi:
That's the way to go.
Krista Mashore:
Again, all because… Prior, I had tried to figure it out on my own. I had hired the wrong people. I honestly wasted about two and a half years. How I had gotten it two and a half years earlier, had I found Russell, oh, my gosh, I would have gotten even further because there was no one teaching what I was teaching back then. So like you said, right now is the gold mine of video for your profession, so get in early and it will definitely help. You believe in the power of digital marketing and social media, so do I. Obviously, you're a true testament to how quickly, how well it can work for you. So, what else can you tell our listeners that you think might be beneficial to them, John?
John Khosravi:
Well, when people do get involved in digital marketing, what I've seen, especially when they do it on their own without studying, is they just jump in and do call to actions, like call now for a consultation, call now for this. There's no relationship being developed. It's just hitting you in the face and saying, “Call me now, pay me.” And so, that relationship is so key for people to know you and that's a difference. It takes time. You have to put yourself out there and really think of how would you buy some products. And so, you really want to connect with them in that way. I did a radio ad once. The people that would call me out the radio ad were the last type of clients that I want. I realized, what kind of a person is going to call you based on a bus ad or radio ad? It's not necessarily, depending on what product you're selling.
John Khosravi:
But for me, I've found that people who find me online, watch a video, connect with me, when they called, they're already connected with me. I don't even like people referring me clients, which is in the legal field, 99% of lawyers will say, “My best source is referrals from previous clients.” But I found, I don't like that because when someone refers somebody to me, they haven't done the research of seeing my videos, connecting with me personally, see my accolades and awards, and all that kind of stuff. They haven't sold themselves already that I'm the guy. They just have a phone number their friend gave them, a friend saying they're good as good. But someone seeing all my reviews on these lawyer websites and on Yelp and all that kind of stuff, that's even better than one person saying there's multiple people saying it. Seeing copies of my approval notices and the success I had and all this kind of stuff, that is much better than someone else just saying, “Oh, go to my buddy. He's a good lawyer. He helped me in the past.”
John Khosravi:
So, I prefer 99.9% of my clients come from the internet. When people refer me clients, I'm always hesitant because I know they're a previous client or a friend referring them. I have to be extra nice. Whereas, someone online contact me, if we're not meshing, I just let them know right off the bat we're not a good match. But if someone referred me, I have to spend more time with it. With the numbers that we're getting contacts and the time, the more successful you get. You realize the impact of time and how important that is. I was like, “Okay, I have time. I'll spend time.” Now, it's like, even a minute, I got to get off the phone. A minute is a minute. I don't have time for this. You have to be respectful. You don't want to leave a bad review. You're going to offend people by rushing them out. But, it's just important. When you're hitting these numbers, all of a sudden, every time is a come on and you cannot wait. That's the most important part.
John Khosravi:
That's when you start developing teams. That was a big game changer in my mind. For a longest time, I've done everything myself. I just kept it simple because I wasn't looking to be a billionaire off this stuff. I just want to make a good living and have this to spend time with my family because I only work-work when it comes to the practice, maybe two or three hours a day. The rest of the time, I'm with my family, exercising, cooking at home, that. And then, I do videos for fun. I don't consider that part the two, three hours of the hardcore work I'm doing with clients. But then, I realized I'm still getting so many leads and stuff. If I just have a team help me on this stuff, it's much bigger. That was the next step of my development, having a team do stuff rather than doing every aspect of it myself.
Krista Mashore:
On your own. How long did it take you to work up to that point?
John Khosravi:
Seven years.
Krista Mashore:
That's good, though.
John Khosravi:
Yeah. I'm really possessed on what if it's done wrong, this and that. So piecemeal by piecemeal, things that could be is put out, I'm getting. What happened is once I started trusting people to do the work, now I can't wait to give them the work. All of the stuff I used to be afraid of giving out, I'm like, “No, please, you do this.” A lot of it has to do with video editing, posting, social media, giving them access to stuff like how to go and post them on YouTube.
Krista Mashore:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, great. Thank you. This has been super, super valuable and knowledgeable. I always ask everyone if they could just, one life hack, work hack, the best piece of information they could be, how would they end the podcast?
John Khosravi:
Oh, good question. I might've said it already, but the main thing is, as I said, invest in yourself, do internal review. So, one thing that happened to me where I really made my quality of life really well is I read this book. You don't have to read this book, but just think about it. I think it was called… Dr. Keith Ablow wrote a book. He was on Howard Stern. He did an interview with them. I really respected his interview, how well he did. Living the Truth or something was the book. It really dive into opening up the things that are holding me back psychologically. Once I opened that door and got rid of that junk and threw it out, it really created a new path. So a lot of this marketing stuff, because you are being reflected to the public, you have to clean out your own thoughts and be the right person you want to be, or else you're just going to be this fake image or a person that has hangups. So to be able to succeed in digital marketing, you have to really cleanse yourself.
John Khosravi:
But when you look at Russell Brunson in his books, he really opens about who he is and he puts himself in a vulnerable position. That really comes into play we do marketing, to be vulnerable but know who you are. So, you won't really be vulnerable because you know who you are as a person. But, you got to get through that hump and really find yourself first, so spend time. That's part of reinvesting in yourself. See who you are and don't just be this facsimile of who you want to be or, in a sense, what you think is good but it's not really you. Really dig down and find the person you are, what you really enjoy, what your goals are really.
John Khosravi:
Because a lot of who have these goals that I want to be rich, well, why do you want to be rich? What are you going to do with that money? Just having piles of money has never helped anybody. So many people killing themselves that are rich, so many people are unhappy that are rich. Why do you want the money? Look for the why internally and in your mental aspect.
Krista Mashore:
And you'll do great. Awesome. If people want to find out more about you, where do they go?
John Khosravi:
Just email me at info@jqklaw.com or JQK Law that comes with my law firm. There's my bio page and law firm page. But all of you, just connect with me and type in JQK Law. My social media comes up. You can find info and videos about me, and that would just connect with me. I'd be happy to take it from there.
Krista Mashore:
Great. John, so appreciate this. It was a wealth of information. Everyone, now, listen, as always, we appreciate you giving us a little bit of your time. But remember, learning is amazing and we're so happy that you're here. But if you don't actually implement, nothing happens. So continue to be fired up, not just in what you're listening but what you're doing. I will see you next time. Thanks again for being here.
Krista Mashore:
Hey there. I have a brand new podcast called F.I.R.E.D Up with Krista Mashore where I bring my high energy right to your ears. This podcast is available on all your favorite podcast platforms. So do me a favor, go subscribe and leave a review. All this information is free and I cannot wait to teach you everything I know. Thanks so much for watching my video. You can learn more about how to be a successful real estate professional by watching other videos that I have and be sure to subscribe to my channel. As always, make it a great home selling and buying day.
